Ichiruki Vs Ichihime Essay

how shall i deal with this.....let's reason this out logically(which of course, people could say it is logical fallacy) and you tell me whether what my stand make sense or not. i am not even going to tell the 'oh so great orihime is to ichigo' that's why the poem is talking about orihime bullshits. we will only go by all the facts that are laid out by us.

there are two train of thoughts when people talk about authorial intention.

a) kubo tite being obvious.....he would slap to the readers' face what he want them all to know.

b) kubo tite being subtle..... he enjoys when people get different meanings from them(not necessary from poems), he provoke people to think and analyze when reading his work. ie he did say there is not necessary one meaning to the story.

agreed?

let's then look at the ichiruki's analyze explaination about 49 poem. -- the obvious one - kubo tite slapped on us and see what they say.... 

the you is a female and you not being in the world. rukia is the only female not in the world.

is that all??

now look at my analyze explainations about 49 poem -- and you tell me whether it falls on the simple obvious one or the in depth analytical one.

what now then is your stand? do you still think kubo tite is the type of person who would do the obvious one, slapping the glaring conclusion to everyone? or perhaps does the opposite.....use it as a red herring while putting in other hints and there for people to catch the true meaning when combining all the clues?

i don't want to hear your stand because i can't say you are right or wrong; i am not kubo tite.

neither you are kubo tite. you cannot say that kubo tite will never resort to red herrings or hide the real meanings behind so deep. nor can you say my interpretation of the poem is wrong.

Just because everyone else is saying it, doesn't mean everyone is right. especially when the reasonings are simple enough to be parroted.

- Translators precise that the you isn't the same as the you for Zangetsu, but is more female like.- Poems comes right after the IchiRuki separation and Ichigo lost his powers. The word "without you in it" means that someone is absent and 2 entities are: Zangetsu and Rukia. Though it's not Zangetsu, Rukia's also female contrary to haters beliefs *le gasp*

point 1

僕はついてゆけるだろうか 君のいない世界のスピードに

as for i(male), able to keep up, can ?(darouka) with the world that you(female) have not in

"Can I really keep up with the speed of the world...where you're not in here?"

I wonder if I can keep up with the speed of the world without you.

here's the thing. there is only two answer to the question that use the word 'can'(darouka).

can/cannot i go to toilet?

yes you can/no you can't.

can/cannot i eat this cake?

yes you can/no you can't.

in japanese, kana(かな) is one way of saying 'i wonder' or express uncertainty over the future/what is he supposed to do now which would have more than two answers usually

明日雪が降るかな。.....i wonder whether it will snow tomorrow or not--yes/no.

何を着ていこうかな。....i wonder what to wear?---whatever thing you want.

これいくらかな。....i wonder how much is this?--well the price is.

if you can't see where i'm getting at is this....'kana' gives impression that the speaker is wondering of something that is to come on the way(foreseened) or is in present. speaker knows it is there/on the way but still wonders what to do with it.

to put it shortly......if in the context of rukia not being in the world for 17 months, and he is still wondering IN HIS MIND whether he can or cannot 'kana' would have been aptly used.

'darouka' the can/cannot is obviously for something that is not to be foreseen and unexpected. it's like::

i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'

which leads to another question....can 'kana' be used instead for orihime? ichigo expects orihime to be taken out of this world from him? no. he doesn't think orihime will leave him anytime soon, but if she did......i leave this to you guys to answer.

point 2:

the poem is a monologue of his mind. he should know what he is facing, how he is facing ESPECIALLY when he is experiencing it now. AND HE SHOULD BE HONEST. UNLESS it's something that he did not experience, he would wonder what is like to be. rukia's leaving is something that he experienced and he's still not sure to say that he cannot keep up with the speed of the world where she's not in it? this is not the first time rukia is separated from him.

What if Kubo were to intend to meant it as Orihime; Orihime's leaving is not something that he truly experienced? hence he is not sure whether he can do it if it really happened?

point 3

speed of the world......is it romantic word to be used? depending on how it is used. two type of speed.....fast and slow.

the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.

or

the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.

which world speed do you think ichigo's world is in book 49 that he must have Rukia, and how can she help him deal with it.......romantically?

make it a fast world so that ichigo wouldn't feel lethargic....always feeling adventurous fighting hollows and demons.....is that even romantic??

make it a slow world so that ichigo....i don't know.....i can't imagined rukia trying to make ichigo stop everything, forget what his burden are.....ichigo, you go and rest while i fight the hollows for  you......is that even romantic??

My take on this...

kubo tite being subtle..... he enjoys when people get different meanings from them(not necessary from poems), he provoke people to think and analyze when reading his work. ie he did say there is not necessary one meaning to the story.

Actually,what KT said COMPLETELY is...

Kubo: "There are bits in the manga where I draw scene that wouldn’t get the reader’s attention too much. I always put all my effort into my manga but how each audience read my manga are different. So it’s really important to make sure they would end up all having a similar idea of my story, but then again, it’s really up to them how they read the manga, but then there are scenes where I want the audience to be touched, so it’s really hard."

           Don't be confused,KT never said that there is not necessary ONE meaning to the story.What he said actually is,"It's really important to make sure they (the readers) would end up all having similar idea of my story"

           He did say that there are bits in the manga that he drew in a way that won't get the readers attention too much (hidden messages,but not actually hidden,it's just not that easy to notice).He's putting all his effort in his manga,why?because he wants the readers to get the message that he was trying to convey,but unfortunately,each readers/audience read his manga differently.

That's why,when he said this...

"It's really important to make sure they (the readers) would end up all having similar idea of my story"

           He means that there is ONE specific meaning to his story,hence he was saying that the readers should end up having SIMILAR idea.

And when he said...

but then again, it’s really up to them how they read the manga

           It's because he couldn't control how people use to interpret things,and he should not tell it by words,he would only tell his story in his manga.

That's why he said...

but then there are scenes where I want the audience to be touched, so it’s really hard

           It's hard to make everyone interpret his story CORRECTLY/similarly,there would always be some people who would/might interpret it in different way.It's just normal,since every individual have their own way of interpreting things around them.

Cleared?

           I will skip the part where there is an elaboration for the meaning of the words "I wonder" and "If I can" since I knew that everyone already knows the meaning and the use of those words,eh?

Now,I'll start with the "it could be Orihime"

Did you noticed this?

i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'

            It says things clearly...Ichigo should be able to keep up with the speed of the world as long as she (Orihime) was there,right?It was only when she's gone that he wouldn't know if he can.If this is true,then why am I seeing Ichigo being bored with his life?Chad saying that he's been a sad sight,Keigo pointing out that his grades are dropping,Isshin pointing out that he finally become able to say something about SS (shinigamis),but ends up avoiding the subject...those things shows that Ichigo was still unable to move on,even he himself noticed it...


 

         Ichigo should be having a higher grades since he have plenty of times for studying,unlike when he was still a shinigami who have some sleepless nights because of his extra responsibilities,but what we have instead is,Keigo pointing out that his grades are dropping.He should be happy because he finally got what he wanted (have a life that he couldn't see spirits),but Chad commented that he's been a sad sight since he lost his powers.

           Those things are all pointing to one conclusion...Ichigo was unable to keep up with the speed of the world,even though Orihime is there with him.

Another thing,I just couldn't help but point this out...

the world is fast paced, i have so many things to think about and settled. i don't have time to breath. there you came and asked me to sit and laugh, you make me forgot my problems for a while as you make me eat those throwaway breads....i breath a little, my mind cleared a little.

            I've never seen Ichigo laughed (a genuine one) since he lost his powers...maybe,I just happened to skip that page?In any case,I didn't see Ichigo forgetting his problems for a while,or having a clear mind (though little) when he was eating bread and drinking tea with Orihime...O.o

Instead,what I see is this...



            If you haven't noticed,when Ichigo repeated the word "intuition" it's the part where he noticed that there's something going on,something's wrong.In other words,this adds up to the pressure of being powerless,hence his nakamas couldn't say everything to him,because he doesn't have his powers anymore,and made them worried about him.Ichigo didn't pushed the subject,because he knew that Orihime won't tell him anyway,because he was powerless.And to make things even shorter,this conversation only adds up to his depression.

And about this one...

the world is moving slow snail paced. i have nothing to do but wait for the life to pass slowly uninterestingly. you spiced up my life. you come with weird jokes and funny gags. i nearly jumped and got heartattack when you do something dangerous.



I've never seen Ichigo being entertained with her jokes?

            One more thing...if eating bread and drinking tea,making some gags makes Ichigo wonder about being able to keep up with the speed of the world,or spicing things up for him,why would he be grateful towards Orihime alone?Isn't Karin and Yuzu do this with him as well?(minus the gag).If we are going to talk about gags,Keigo is there too.In other words,Orihime is not the only one who does those things for him.

 

           This is not the matter of Ichigo being grateful towards Orihime,especially,when she is not the only person that Ichigo could be grateful to...

 

           Everyone knows that Ichigo is not happy without his powers.If he is depressed because he doesn't have his powers anymore,then the only thing that can make him happy,is to have that powers back.That is what Chad was trying to do there.Don't you think Ichigo would be grateful about this?However,the poem was only referring to a female,so...

             Judging by the things that happened in the manga,can we really say that Ichigo is referring to Orihime in that poem?Orihime who is not the only one in the Human World that Ichigo could be grateful to.She's not the only one among the people who are with Ichigo in the Human World who's doing their best to cheer him up,so it shouldn't be her alone whom Ichigo should be thinking of being able to keep up with the speed of the world,if he's talking about someone who is currently there with him.For the last part,Ichigo is still struggling to cope up with the speed of the world,even though Orihime is there with him,so...  

Now.let's see the "it was Rukia"

point 1 :

if you can't see where i'm getting at is this....'kana' gives impression that the speaker is wondering of something that is to come on the way(foreseened) or is in present. speaker knows it is there/on the way but still wonders what to do with it.

A/N :

            Actually,the speaker is wondering if that time (him being able to keep up with the speed of the world) would come/happen in the future.The speaker is not sure if it will ever come on his way (being able to keep up with the speed of the world),that's why he was wondering.

darouka' the can/cannot is obviously for something that is not to be foreseen and unexpected. it's like::

i'm not sure whether i can or cannot keep up with the speed of the world that doesn't have you in it. i can keep up with the speed of the world when you are in it.....but when (OR IF) you are not in it, i'm not sure whether i can'

A/N :

           To make things clear,Ichigo never  mentioned the "if I can't".Ichigo is only wondering "if he CAN".Please don't add a word to a sentence,especially,if you wanted to analyze it's meaning.Adding a word to a sentence will affect its entire meaning.

point 2 :

the poem is a monologue of his mind. he should know what he is facing

             The thing that Ichigo was currently facing at that moment,is leaving a life without Rukia.

how he is facing ESPECIALLY when he is experiencing it now. AND HE SHOULD BE HONEST.

             Ichigo is facing it with inability to keep up with the speed of the world.Read here and here

UNLESS it's something that he did not experience, he would wonder what is like to be. 

             The thing that he haven't experienced yet since their separation,is being able to get over with it,even though it was 17 months already,that's why,Ichigo is now (in that moment) wondering if he CAN.

rukia's leaving is something that he experienced and he's still not sure to say that he cannot keep up with the speed of the world where she's not in it?

            Again,Ichigo is not wondering if he CAN'T,why?Because he knows it already,he was unable to keep up with the speed of the world,because she's not there with him.The only thing that Ichigo is wondering about is if he CAN.Make no mistake on that part,don't be confused,wondering if he "can't" is way different from wondering if he "CAN "

this is not the first time rukia is separated from him.

            This is what this person said in the debate thread...

ichigo wondered why did he had to save rukia when she was originally not belonged to the real world until orihime showed him that rukia did belonged here and saving her life takes up the utmost top priority. 




            Reread the "Blank" chapter please,Ichigo never said "why bother saving Rukia?" Adding words again,sigh.When Ichigo said those words,he was talking about being affected by the fact that everyone forgets her.She was originally from the SS,so why is he bothered that everyone forgets her,though in reality,she doesn't really belong there.Read here for more elaboration on that chapter.

            In any case,there's still some changes there.Ichiruki's separation in chapter "Bleach my Soul" shows a growing fondness of Ichigo to Rukia compared to the one that took place at the "Blank" chapter.From the following chapters next to "Blank",Ichigo and Rukia's relationship/bond is growing stronger,and they became closer to each other,that's why,the separation is more painful compared to the previous one.

Part 2

it could be orihime, especially since in that book we have orihime spending time with ichigo in his room and orihime sliding down the pipe and making gag jokes 

They do seem to be trapped in the first two arcs most of the time. Which is strange, because looking back on it, the material they were given in those arcs is nowhere near as great as it’s made out to be??

You have the Agent of the Shinigami arc, with Rukia basically training Ichigo to be a shinigami and running around Karakura Town fighting hollows together. That lasts for about 60 chapters, and then Rukia goes back to SS.

They’re given a decent amount of screentime in those 60 chapters, but a lot of it is also spent setting up the story of Bleach (rather than the story of Ichigo and Rukia, which is, despite what many argued for years, not the same thing), with little mini-arcs of chapters dedicated to Orihime, Chad, and Ishida along the way. Again, IR was given decent screentime in this arc, and, when compared to the rest of the series, this is when they were given the most screentime of any other arc.

I repeat: the most screentime IR was ever given was in the first arc. Their screentime and interactions drastically plateaued after that for the remainder of the series and never regained the focus it once had in the very beginning. Which is….not a good sign, if you ship it for canon.

The AotS arc is when they were at their highest in terms of screentime, and development. They grew closer, started to trust each other more, developed a strong bond. But nothing happened in terms of romantic development (even if fans wanted to interpret it that way, it was always platonic. Kubo’s own words confirmed that, along with the ending to boot).

Meanwhile, it was Orihime who was given romantic feelings for Ichigo—not Ichigo for Rukia. Not Rukia for Ichigo. But Orihime for Ichigo. That’s where any and all romance was focused at this point: Ichigo and Orihime. And Orihime was effectively made a shoe-in as a potential love-interest for Ichigo, because of those feelings, because that’s just how shounens work. 

Even the SS arc, which is heralded as the ‘Golden Age of IR’ had some definite misfires in terms of romantic hints or development between Ichigo and Rukia. There was so much potential that either wasn’t used, or was given to IH/RR instead. They spend practically the entire arc separated, their interactions were minimal, and they had to share the spotlight with RR, which, unlike IR, actually had a romantic context through Renji’s feelings.

Throughout the arc, Kubo still reminds us of Orihime’s feelings for Ichigo, and then, lo and behold, Renji’s feelings for Rukia are made clear as well. Once again: Not Ichigo’s feelings for Rukia. Not Rukia’s feelings for Ichigo. But Renji’s feelings for Rukia. 

So the romantic subplots are now Orihime–>Ichigo and Renji–>Rukia, while Ichigo and Rukia are still very much platonic. Kubo decided to create overt romantic feelings for two pairings other than IR—and they were the two pairings that actually opposed IR, nonetheless.

It was more important to him to make Orihime’s and Renji’s feelings canon, than it was to make at least either Ichigo or Rukia’s feelings for each other canon. That was telling you everything you needed to know about the set-up of the pairings, but people ignored it and bemoaned IH/RR for being “too one-sided!!” They never seemed to realize that one-sided was much, much better than zero-sided. 

Towards the end of the arc, Ichigo rescues Rukia and immediately throws her into Renji’s arms, tells Renji it’s his job to protect her—and he does this knowing how Renji feels about Rukia! That was supposed to be ichiruki’s big shining moment and yet it’s intercepted by renruki at Ichigo’s insistence. Then Ichigo battles Byakuya at the end, but it isn’t Rukia who’s watching from the forest or having to stop herself from running to his side, it’s Orihime. It isn’t Rukia who tries to catch Ichigo’s fall after that battle ends, kneels down at his side and cries tears of joy that he’s alright while Ichigo gives her puppy-dog eyes—that’s all Orihime. Meanwhile, Rukia is on the other side of SS, being cradled in Renji’s arms, and crying into Renji’s chest. 

It’s supposed to be all about IR and yet all of those cute, intimate, “shippy” moments are given to IH/RR while Ichigo and Rukia are still separated. It’s supposed to be all about Ichigo saving Rukia, and yet  at the very end, it’s Renji - not Ichigo -but Renji who keeps cradling Rukia in his arms, looks Aizen right in the eyes and says “I’ll never let her go.”

I mean, shouldn’t such a moment have gone to Ichigo instead if IR were romantic or meant to be romantic in the future? How did people not clue in to where things were heading by this point?


All of this RR/IH stuff is happening, while IR….?

They don’t interact again until they say goodbye at the end of the arc, and they’re cool with going their separate ways. Rukia shows up in the next arc and practically plays Cupid for Ichigo with Orihime by bringing him to her side and then hastily leaving the scene (even though she and Ichigo just reunited?? lol), and after the arrancar arc, you can practically count the number of IR moments on both hands for the remainder of the series.

Why do you think IR shippers anticipated and clamoured for and hyped up IR reunions so much? Because Ichigo and Rukia spent so much time apart in the manga. If your ship is getting a lot of screentime and development, you don’t need reunions, because the two of them aren’t apart long enough to require them.

But their screentime was so minimal. Long stretches of nothing but time spent apart in between reunions where their bond is reinforced as the same old thing it always was, while Rukia’s attached at Renji’s hip and Ichigo’s getting a truckload of screentime and romantic development with Orihime.

As I’ve said before, IR’s screentime and development was basically condensed into the beginning of the series and completed with those first two arcs, so there was simply nowhere else for Kubo to take it after that. They were as close as they could be, and he had no intention of taking things to a different level by making it romantic, so Ichigo’s relationships with other people - relationships that, unlike IR, still had plenty of room to grow and develop and be fleshed out (particularly his relations with Ishida and Orihime) were focused on instead.

And in the end, these first two arcs of the series that are held in such high regard to some shippers as ‘goldmines’ for IR, happened before the 2008 Fade to Black “it is not romantic (laughs)” interview. Meaning anything that happened prior to that interview—the AotS and SS arcs, which make up the bulk of IR moments and material, was all ruled as not romantic by Kubo himself. Add in the fact that Kubo also confirmed he decided on IH/RR after chapter one, and it’s a wrap. 

Categories: 1

0 Replies to “Ichiruki Vs Ichihime Essay”

Leave a comment

L'indirizzo email non verrà pubblicato. I campi obbligatori sono contrassegnati *